Forum Activity for @Andy Ciordia

I agree I wouldn't grind it in there, it's going to create a grain you're customers are going to notice. The few thoughts which flit by my mind is to either make it into a simple syrup (make extra strength coffee, boil it down to 1/2 then make a normal simple syrup, and boil away more of the water--this would take some trial and error) for addition or take the simple syrup and boil it down a bit more then let dry, break it back into the sugars and you've got a coffee flavored sugar.

Or you can do like Brad mentioned and do it through the confections. We do an espresso truffle where we've extracted the espresso into the cream before creating the ganache.

My suggestion would be to figure out a way to use the coffee in your confections, and not grind it at all into your chocolate. Coffee is a very strong flavour, which could very easily find its way into other chocolate you make regardless of how much you think you've cleaned out your grinder.

Hello !

I have just found someone who roasts freshly coffee and I have some ideas to make chocolate with this coffee. Can I put the coffee in the grinder with sugar and other ingredients ? How do you make it ?

The problem is that I have just one grinder and I make other types of chocolate too..

Thank you in advance for your help !

Chris:

There is now a distributor for Pomati in the USA - Qzina. They're national but their HQ is in Southern California. I suggest you connect with them directly re: parts.

Hi Sam,

Let me reply to the two messages together:

1) I suggested sourcing from local manufacturers around you as said you were unable to locate parts and the only option you had was going to Italy. There should not be any need to go there since Pomati is helpful. Original parts is the preferred option always.

2) There is nothing wrong with the machine, in my case the customer took a sharp object like a screw driver and poked it in the area where the melted chocolate is pushed into the machine. They intended to push out the solid chocolate mass that was rotting in the tube but ended up puncturing a hole in the tubing system of the machine.

Hope this helps you. Good luck.

Hello Ankur,

Which Tempering machine do you suggest is better when compared FBM , Semi or Pomati in 10 -15kg range ?

I am finding this strange

"The only other option, is to approach local manufacturers / suppliers around you for a similar part. It goes without saying that the part would need to be as close to the original as possible."

Why not to use original parts from the company.

Hi!

Is there anything wrong with the machine? Can you please share your experience with Pomati Machine?

Hi Chris,

I was in touch with Pomati (probably more than a year ago), with regards to repairs needed on a machine they had sold to a customer in India (Bangalore city, I am in Mumbai). They were more than happy to guide me and send over necessary parts (at the customers expense in this case as they were the ones who messed it up). Have you tried doing the same.

The only other option, is to approach local manufacturers / suppliers around you for a similar part. It goes without saying that the part would need to be as close to the original as possible.

All the best in any case.

I am unable to locate parts for this machine other than going to Italy.

I understand depreciation, how to calculate, the many different ways of calculating, and how it applies to your; balance sheet, income statement, free cash flows, etc. I am just curious which method people are using.

Depreciation is an accounting function, the calculation of which is derived from a number of business decisions you make WITH your accountant. Depreciation can accrue over a period of years, or can be calculated on a flat/sliding scale and accounted for yearly prior to your business taxes being done.

In a nutshell? There is no one single way of calculating depreciation for equipment.

Cheers.

Brad

Those of you who are running a chocolate business or sell your chocolates, what is the time table for your accumulated depreciation on your equipment?

I am have purchased my basic home equipment but right now I am planning to use it just for hobby use, but if the people I share it with like I may turn it into a business and was curious about the depreciation. If you could just tell me how many years and what model you have that would be great.

If you run a business and don't know what I'm talking about feel free to message me. If you're not doing this you could be in a bit of trouble if you ever did get audited and you are technically not paying taxes correctly. That can make the government mad haha!

Thanks!

Hi,

I live in Samoa and dabble in development work here.(started as a Peac CorpsVolunteer, looking to start my own NGO one of these days.) Also a (very) amatuer chocoloate maker. I'd like to know this guy's name if you don't mind sharing, so I can steer clear.

Thanks,

Benj

howard...

I was approached 2 years ago by a man who said he was representing some cocoa farmers in Samoa. He talked a long talk and was slicker than seal fat. Long story short it was a scam. Now the good people at the farm in Samoa were nice enough but the man who was representing them and was supposedly setting up the NGO was a con artist who had bilked other industries in Samoa out of money. I have his name and a long list of lawsuits filed against him if interested.

The beans he sent me were either completely moldy or not fermented at all.

Howard-----

wonderful flavor of criollo variety is what I remember from the early 70's. The islands was littered with cacao plants, every village had tree's as tall as 12 feet. Conditions are great to regrowth of this variety and find your research helpful.

Paulie

Here's something else we're trying to figure out . . .

In its heyday, Samoan cocoa enjoyed a high reputation in the world of chocolate making because of reputedly having the highest level of cocoa butter in the world. Why would that be?

Samoas fine chocolate quality may be due to the unique soil composition of Samoas cocoa growing areas. On the northwest rain-shadowed coast of both islands (see attachment), trees seemingly grow out of rocks. Soil is buried deeply in the fissures. Almost no mechanization is possible, even walking is difficult. Land is very difficult to clear, however, once established, cocoa trees on the lava flow thrive on the weed-free environment, where their own leaves cover the earth.

According to studies, Samoan soils are unbalanced in respect to nutrients; calcium is too high or potassium is too low for optimal crop yields. Potassium-deficient plants are more susceptible to certain diseases. Potassium-rich treatments could include seaweed or compost rich in decayed banana peels. Wood ash has high potassium content, but should be composted first as it is in a highly soluble form. It is possible that potassium deficiency has led the plant to exude a higher than usual cocoa fat content.

Very interesting read, thanks for posting.

Yes, they were Criollo and Trinitario. And there is still heaps of Trinitario. What is you opinion of Amelonado? I know it is more disease-resistant, but disease resistance can be greatly aided by proper "sanitary pruning" See e.g. http://aciar.gov.au/system/files/node/9136/MN131%20full%20text.pdf What would one recommend in terms of over time replacing the Amelonado with Trinitario? Regards.

Howard -

Do you know what fine flavor varieties were planted on the island prior to their being replaced by the Amelonado strains you mention?

Hello everyone: I've been doing research into Samoan chocolate. Twenty years ago it had one of the best reputations in the world with most of its crop being classified as "fine and flavour" (top ICCO category). Today, despite having 5000 acres of fine cocoa, Samoa has only a (very strong) domestic market and a (very small) export to New Zealand (Samoans). I'm working on a plan to revive Samoa's chocolate industry with a group of NGOs and private sector. One of the things I'm researching is what led to Samoa's decline. I've come up with the following narrative, and I'd appreciate if anyone can add or change anything to it. Kind regards, Howard Frederick Mamor Chocolates in Melbourne Australia

• The mid-seventies were Samoas peak period in terms of cocoa earnings. Cocoa exports had been declining from the early 1960s to 1972, but from 1972-1977 world cocoa prices septupled, and average receipts were US$5.83 million per year. Exports peaked in 1977 at a level that was never to be achieved again. The problem was that, although the industry had been prospering, yield had been declining from the 1960s due to the widespread adoption of poor planting material. Thus cocoa export values declined during the early 1980s due to the triple effect of falls in prices, decline in quality, and decline in yields.
• But a recovery of sorts began in 1983 after a cocoa rehabilitation program in the 1970s and early 1980s that entailed replanting areas with high-yielding, more disease-resistant but less flavourful Amelonado varieties. The volume of cocoa bean exports almost trebled and their unit value almost doubled, remaining above US$1 million until 1987. For the remainder of the decade, however, falling world prices led to a rapid decline in cocoa export values that were only US$0.26 million in 1989.
• The decline to this date had nothing to do with cyclones. Samoas planting of amelonado substantial premium traditionally earned by Samoan cocoa in world markets when Trinitario cocoa dominated, making it eligible for sale as 'fine or flavour' cocoa, had disappeared. Samoan beans were being sold at an appreciable discount by 1982-83 and quality continued to deteriorate throughout the 1980s due to poor fermentation, drying and storage practices, and increased plantings of the lower-value Amelonado cocoa varieties.
• The death blow came when devastating natural and biological disasters destroyed the industry. These included Cyclone Ofa in February 1990 and Cyclone Val in December 1991, the latter being the most devastating cyclone to hit the country in a century.
• Despite aid-funded efforts in the 1980s to rehabilitate cocoa, chronic problems evident in previous decades persisted into the final decade in these industries. The devastating effects of Cyclones Ofa and Val, and the drought that followed Cyclone Ofa, compounded the negative impact of an extended period of low world prices and virtually destroyed the cocoa industry from 1990 to 2000.
• Tree losses of 20-30% were heavy due to the long duration of the cyclones and the long exposure to salt spray. Trees older than 10 years were the most affected. After virtually no exports to 1996, cocoa export values at least recovered to US$44,000 in 1996, but exports remained at negligible levels throughout the decade. [1]

Hi Clay,

I am currently buying powder and butter and making my bars with it. I am in the process of going down to Belize to source some beans. They will be fermented already, and when I get them I would need to separate the powder and the butter to make my bars. I do not have the equipment to do this, though I would love some resources on how to purchase them myself. In the meantime, I would love if someone had the capabilities to do this. Right now, it is only about 200lb/month.

Kat -

Just to be clear. You are currently making chocolate from the bean and want to find a way to make cocoa butter and cocoa powder from it? Is that correct?

What kinds of quantities are you talking about? A couple of kilos at a time? A couple of hundred kilos at a time? Tons?

Hello! I am looking for someone who has the capabilities to separate the bean into butter and powder for our company. Thank you!

Thank You all,

really understand the use of lecithin better after reading all your comments. Ill be trying my next batch without lecithin,

thanks again

cheers

Only have a few moments now i'm afraid, not much time to get into it.

Lecithin is an ampiphillic emulsifier - one end of it is hydrophillic (attracted to water), end end is lipophillic (attracted to fat). One of the (many) reasons chocolate can get thick is as Mark notes, there is a small amount of moisture present - sugar carries a monolayer of moisture with it, milk has some adsorbed to it's protein, lactose has water of crystallization, etc. Where that moisture comes into contact with, say, sugar you get a phase transition (your sugar goes from crystalline to solution - forms a syrup), and anyone who's ever spilled a soda and missed a spot in cleaning it up knows well that it can get sticky as all get out. The hydrophillic end of lecithin will, essentially, 'stick' to that syrup phase, whereas the other end of lecithin will 'stick' to the cocoa butter (a bit more complicated than that but you get the jist) forming a bridge between the two, essentially making it less sticky.

Now, conching generates (or can, dependent on your process) a lot of heat, and some of the moisture can be volatilized off during conching - so if you've got a process that does this, adding lecithin too early may tie up the moisture, making it harder for it to go away. However, not all processes blow off moisture very well, so it's good to know your process. Some processes get hot enough that you hit what's called the glass transition point of a crystal (sugar), and you can shift it from a crystal to an amorphous state (glass). Amorphous sugars like to collect ambient moisture.

Afraid i've never looked at hardness as a function of lecithin. My gut tells me that the more lecithin you use the softer your chocolate gets (by just a tad) as lecithin is 50% fluid oil, but again i've no direct experience measuring it and as such don't know for certain.

Hmmmm.... I don't know Mark.

I've never heard of lecithin being used to absorb water. Nor have I heard of sugar melting during the refining process. My view is if that much heat is generated, then you're WAY too hot.

I've also never heard of Lecithin being used to aid in the crystalization of the Cocoa butter to make the final chocolate "harder"...

Maybe Sebastian can weigh in here. He's a lot more conversant on Lecithin than I....

Sebastian?

Correct.

Journey, you're right that Soy lecithin (and that's what was being referred to in an earlier post) is used as an emulsifier. HOWEVER, it is not used for this purpose in chocolate, and it CERTAINLY isn't used to keep cocoa and cocoa butter together. It's purpose is the exact opposite. In chocolate it's used in place of added cocoa butter to increase fluidity (decrease surface tension), not increase binding/surface tension between the particles of cocoa beans and the fat.

The bottom line when it comes to the use of lecithin in chocolate: you can cheap out on the use of cocoa butter to a certain point by including lecithin. However at some point you will still need to add some cocoa butter for fluidity.

I brought this point up in another discussion, and it wasn't argued there either. The term "soy lecithin as an emulsifier" in chocolate bar ingredients is marketing jargon by manufacturers, because it sounds better than "soy lecithin as a lubricant".

Do your homework Journey and you'll see I'm right.

Cheers.

Brad

As has already been noted, lecithin coats the particles so you need less cocoa butter. It also ties up the moisture in chocolate. Chocolate is usually about 1% moisture, so can make syrup once itdissolvessugar, but it's not all available for that, somebeing tied up in thefiberand such.Since it is an emulsifier, you don't want to add it until the end of your conching. Add before refining and it can help absorb moisture if the room is even a little humid. The heat from the friction in refining melts some of the sugar, making it amorphous, so it likes water, just like pulverized sugar. Then during conching one of your objectives is to remove moisture, and having the lecithin in just makes it harder.

My apologies, I was speaking ofsoy lecithin. Soy lecithin is anemulsifier, and its added to chocolate to keep the cocoa and the cocoa butter together. Madre Chocolat and Manoa Chocolat both in hawaii have great success making chocolat from bean to bar WITHOUT using lecithin or soy lecithin. Felchlin Chocolat out of switzerland has also had great success making thereCru Sauvage chocolat without the added ingredient. At the end of the day its about choice and satisfaction with your product if YOU think it is necessary. Many have had success with it and without.

Thanks Brad andSebastian

i have got a much better understanding from both your comments

please correct me if i'm wrong

in essence the goal is to is to cover/coat or insulate all the solid particles (cocoa, sugar, milk solids, etc) with fat in order to get a smooth mouth feel.. so if i have enough fat in my formulation iwouldn'tneed lecithin?

Lecithin is NOT an emulsifier, and chocolate is not an emulsion. Chocolate is essentially a suspension of tiny particles of stuff in fat - fat that exhibits specific solidification properties. Having said that, lecithin's role in chocolate is to essentially coat all of the tiny particles of "stuff" (cocoa beans, sugar, vanilla, etc) and makethe particlesslide much easier through the fat. The increase in fluidity created by the lecithin is why chocolate makers like it. It's a cheap alternative to adding more cocoa butter (fat), which also increases fluidity.

Having clarified that point, I have seen lecithin lose it's effectiveness when added at the beginning of the refining phase. By the end of 3 days of refining and conching, the chocolate is quite thick. As a result, when we were using lecithin (I don't use it anymore), my staff would add the lecithin to the refiner about one hour before we were to remove it from said refiner. This allowed the lecithin to work without breaking it down too fine.

Cheers.

Brad

First, remember that lecithin is all about reducing the amount of cocoa butter you use; therefore as Journey notes, it's not essential. If you choose not to use it, you simply compensate by adding more cocoa butter.

Second, it's awfully difficult to tell you when to use it w/o knowing more specifics, such as:

- in your formula, you need to first calculate what the % fat is. it's impossible for me to do so with the information provided (ie you say milk powder - is that skim milk? whole milk? and if whole, is it 26% or 28%?)

- would need to know more about your process? how are you mixing and grinding? if it's the stone melange, the answer is 'it depends'. if you add all your nibs and dry materials and the amount of fat that you want to add up front, and the unit is struggling to grind, then you'll need to add lecithin (or more fat, or get a bigger motor...) simply to aid in the mechanics of grinding.

Can a milk chocolate be made w/o lecithin? absolutely. it will just cost you more to do so.

thanks journey

I'veread alot of discussions regarding the use of lecithin .. both positive and negative. i have made two batches of chocolate before this and did not use in either. This batch that i am making has genorous amounts of milk powder and sugar (most indians prefer milk chocolate, though i prefer dark) and thus i decided to use it to help with viscosity issues. do u think milk chocolate can be mabe without lecithin?

the formulation i used is

250 gms nibs

150 gms cocoa butter

200 gms milk powder

50 gms clarified butter

halfa vanilla pod

1-2 gms lecithin

hi guys,

I'm new to chocolate making can you'll please tell me when i should add the lecithin to the other ingredients?

Thanks Richard, I look forward to it, yours will be the third plantation I will have tried beans from in Samoa, it really is a very nice origin bean.

Hi Tom, the plantation wasn't hidden. It was always there, but all our families left the Island to either to NZ, Australia or the US. The cocoa trees were in good company with grass and other useless weeds. There is about 15 acres of cocoa trees, coconut trees, banana trees and your usual native surroundings. It's a big life changing experience moving from a 5 room house in Sydney to a shack that had no electricity or running water. The magic thing is I can grow the best cocoa bean in the world from there. Just need somewhere to send them to. Clay might get upset with me for using up the web space so feel free to email me. I still owe you some beans so it's coming.

That is quite a journey, I wish I had a hidden plantation too!

On the website are the bars you are selling ground liquor bars?

Congrats on discovering you've got a surprise cocoa farm - not many can say that i don' t think 8-) Some things to consider moving forward, if i may. Whomever originally laid out your grandfathers farm had some knowledge of cocoa - i can tell from your photos. I can also tell from your photos that the trees have been there for some time - now, from what i can see they're all still pretty healthy and productive, but if you're going to migrate this from a discovery you didn't know you had to a sustainable business venture, you're going to want to give some consideration torehabilitation, and may wish to speak to someone about grafting and replenishment planting materials.

Best wishes to you in your new adventure!

4 months ago I was walking through a cocoa plantation in Samoa I didn't know I had. 30 minutes into my walk, thoughts of excitement and gratefulness entered my mind. My grandfathers determination and fighting spirit acquiring the lands I now called home. Dazed with excitement, I started on a journey of growing and producing the best cocoa bean I could possibly produce and share it with the world. Growing up in Samoa drinking cocoa was like drinking water to others. We would pick them off the trees, ferment and dry them before roasting then grind them ready to be made into hot cocoa drink. After some quick research in to cocoa exporting, it was clear that Samoas cocoa export market has been non- existing for many years.

My extended knowledge of cocoa is that you can drink it, buy in a chocolate form and grows all year round. The next two months for me was all about education and learning about cocoa from planting to chocolate and powder form.

We have farmers who live on cocoa so it wasnt hard to find information about growing cocoa in Samoa. The next big challenge for me was to start a program growing cocoa to its maximum potential. With that program now up and running, the next big obstacle was to find someone to sell the cocoa to, which is why my trip to Australia was a must.

Believe it or not, one of the first place I went to for market research was the Chocolate Life website and it all started from there so I would like to thank Chocolate Life and its creator Clay Gordon for contributing to what I have achieve to now. Ive met some fantastic people through CL and Im happy to say that it was through CL that I met Adrian who is my first Samoan raw cocoa bean customer in Australia. Adrian was fantastic through the whole shipping process and it didnt come without its issues. He persisted with it and now enjoys making chocolate with Samoan cocoa beans which only took a few days to get here.

I must admit there are still minor issues we still need to address here in Australia, but overall future shipment will be a breeze due to the work Adrian and I endured.

I also spoke to other cocoa buyers on CL who were interested in Samoan cocoa beans so if you are still in the market to try us, Im sure it will be worth it so contact me via email or go onto my website for more information. www.premiumcocoaenterpise.com

I came this far with other peoples help like CL, Adrian, Peter, Tom to name a few so Im here if anyone needs my help 24/7.

A Chocolate Life member

The more the merrier!

There is nothing like using your own cocoa liquor in cooking, roasted just the way you like it. You also have 100% control over added sugar etc.